US 57mm AT Gun

[Hornswoggler]

Re the US 57mm AT gun. A quick search yields photos of 57mm both with and without the assymetric front shield (higher at right hand side) characterstic of the 6 pdr. Is this something the US initially copied and later removed, or some other explanation? At first I thought it was an airborne/weight thing but that does not seem to be the case.

I am planning to model mine with the symetrical low front shield like image #2(of 3) here:
https://www.army.mil/article/222574/ria ... i_tank_gun

Just want to make sure this would be correct for AT platoon of an Armd Inf Coy (1943 TOE).

[ianrs54]

The ones without front shield are probably airbourne versions removed to lighten it

[Trockledockle]

I would have to see the photographs without the shield to comment. As I understand it, the 57mm was essentially a copy of the standard 6 pounder. It had the longer barrel from the beginning (50 calibre) but never had a muzzle brake and had some differences in the towing hook and how it traversed. The Mk I 6 pounder was designed with a 50 cal barrel but the early production batches (Mk II) were made with 43cal barrels as there was a shortage of gun lathes that were long enough in Britain.

The US Airborne forces (glider infantry) used the British 6 pounder modified for airborne use (Mk III carriage) without any changes. It had a muzzle brake and the front shield was removed. There may be some confusion in that the glider infantry wore standard infantry uniforms, not the paratrooper uniform.

There’s a good explanation of all of this on the 6 pounder Wikipedia page.

[Alanmccoubrey]

I have never seen the US 57mm without some form of forward shield whether is is the assymetrical type which was different in shape to the British one, or a symetrical one with two vertical shields of the same size as the left hand one one the assymetrical.

https://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/57.htm


https://armyjeeps.net/listings/57-mm-anti-tank-gun/

[Hornswoggler]

The first pictures Alan linked @Toadman are the one where the front shield is the same as the 6pdr.



The second link Alan posted is the version I am asking about - see the difference in the shield that is in front of the main gun shield?

[Trockledockle]

I had a look at the Osprey on US A/T Artillery. There is a colour plate with the symmetrical front shield described as an M1A3 carriage. Most of the 57mm pictures in the book are from the back so you can’t see the front shields. However, there are three photographs from action in NWE in late 1944/ early 45 that have the symmetrical front shield. This carriage was adopted as the standard issue so it seems like it is the one to use. I don’t think anyone would complain if you used one with the earlier front - M1A1 and M1A2 carriages - but these seem mostly to have gone to lend lease.

The M1A3 carriage had a different towing hook arrangement with a large lever at the rear so you may want to add that.

[Trockledockle]

This site has the photo I referred to and has details of the towing hook.

https://www.baiv.nl/7243-us-gun-57-mm-m ... -restored/

[Hornswoggler]

Thanks very much for that info. And a great set of photos too...

[Hornswoggler]

Having followed the leads and done a little more research, I am planning to go for something that (hopefully) ends up looking like the M2 carriage:



[Above picture is from a build of the 1/35 Riich Models kit]

[Trockledockle]

A late adddition. I found a photograph of a 57mm from September 1944 in France with the British style armoured shield on the RHS (from the layer’s position looking out from behind the main shield). Definitely a 57mm (no muzzle brake) and with an American crew. It is in “Arracourt 1944: A Triumph of American Armour” by Mike Guardia, pg 69. It seems that both types were used.

[Hornswoggler]

Yep. As I mentioned in the separate post I made concerning the sighting equipment
( http://www.thewargamersforum.com/viewto ... =23&t=5974 )
it seems just about every combo for the 57mm of different versions of carriage, shield, tyres, telescope, etc seems to have been valid !

Mine are still in bits while a cobble together a rudimentary representation of the late model telescope and its mount ...

This was meant to be a quick little conversion project !

[Trockledockle]

I was dragged into a local antiques shop about 5 years ago by my wife and they had a 6pdr gun sight for sale. It was £90 so I didn’t buy it.

[Alanmccoubrey]

I came across this pic of US use of the British 6 pounder A/B, I had thought there was a thread on here talking about such use but I can't find it so here seems as good a place as any to post it. Have they changed the wheels ?